AN INTERVIEW WITH APOLLO 19 COMMANDER
REVELATIONS BY ANOTHER
INSIDER ON THE APOLLO 19/20 CASE: "MOONWALKER1966DELTA" -
A YOUTUBE USER - CLAIMS TO BE A FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT
by Luca Scantamburlo
INTRODUCTION
Since May 2007 I have been investigating as freelancer an intrigant case on which so far there is an embarrassing silence in the mass media world: the Apollo 19/20 case, about classified USAF missions - officially never occured - by NASA assistance and the collaboration of the Soviets.
It seems that up to now only Kevin Smith – see his interview with me in October 2007, during his radio talk The Kevin Smith Show (live from Phoenix, Arizona) has opened a honest discussion on the controversial topic.
Among not many reports on the issue, I want to point out the one written by Steve Johnson for a British bi-monthly publication: The Apollo XX Controversy, pages 31-35, UFO Data Magazine, November-December 2007; it is fair and keeps an open mind.
We know the Apollo 19/20 case is a jungle composed by truth and fake; there are contradictory aspects and some misleading data, but at the same time very interesting videos never seen before, official evidence of symmetrical (artificial?) objects resting on the lunar surface, some detailed information on Space exploration and Space flight, and an historical context where to read this astonishing story. My opinion is we are facing some kernels of truth, very important for the mankind's future.
The target of the above-mentioned and presumed military space missions would have been the far side of the Moon, where to explore and collect data about some mysterious and huge objects resting over there; among them, two triangle objects and a huge cigar-shaped object, apparently ancient extraterrestrial space ships.
The insider who - since April 2007 by YouTube - has been telling the story is “retiredafb” (that's his YouTube user name), who claims to be William Rutledge, an American citizen and a former civilian test pilot that would have employed in the last century with Avro, Chance Vought and the USAF, before taking part in Apollo 20 as commander (CDR). The other two crew members of Apollo 20: Leona Marietta Snyder (as CSP) and the famous cosmonaut Alexei Leonov (as LMP).
According to Rutledge's testimony, Apollo 20 was a secret joint US and Soviet space mission that occured in August 1976 (launch from Vandenberg AFB: August 16), about one year after the famous Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, which launched in July 1975 (Apollo 18 and Soyuz 19).
Kindly at the end of May 2007 “retiredafb” granted me an interview (not by e-mail) by the YouTube General messages service; an interview which I was able to arrange and spread on my website: www.angelismarriti.it; as journalist I thought the story told by “retiredafb” about Apollo 19 and 20 was worthy of attention.
Just to give you an example, an indirect and possible confirmation of the story could be the not well-known ASTP memorial flags signed by Alexei Leonov; P.R. - one Italian citizen who has been following my reports since August 2007 - has found the official link of USSR-AIRSPACE.COM: you can see that the flags look like the mission patch aboard the Constellation, presumed Apollo 20 CSM; even on revver.com another user pointed out the same link.
Rutledge's last job before retiring was working on the KH-11 project (USAF). He explained me also that the ASTP (Apollo-Soyuz Test Project) was the preparatory mission to Apollo 19; and later Apollo 20, after the presumed failure of Apollo 19 and the presumed loss of its crew. Therefore Apollo 20, a classified mission to the Moon alleged by William Rutledge to have taken place aboard a Saturn V moon rocket, would have been preceded by Apollo 19. In recollecting the dramatic loss of the Apollo 19 spacecraft and of its crew, it was an amazing thing to me how William Rutledge was more precise about it before what he told me in the interview (see answer nr.13); on May 23 2007, he told me in our contacts (see Fig.3) that:
<<Apollo 19 had a loss of telemetry wheile being at the end of the TLI, it was not clearly explained at this time, but it is beleived, it was a natural phenomemon, a collision of the aircraft and one of Cruithne brother, who was not identified in 1976. >>
May 23, 2007, 06:12 PM, from my YouTube Account
At the moment William Rutledge (born in Belgium in 1930, in Grembergen, he specified in his user-card on-line on YouTube) moved to another website of files sharing: revver.com, where he has registered himself with the same nickname used on YouTube : “retiredafb”. You can see some of his videos at the following address:
http://revver.com/u/retiredafb/
"MOONWALKER1966DELTA" SPEAKS OUT
Later on another YouTube user - by the name of "moonwalker1966delta" - has been beginning to spread alleged classified short videos about Apollo 20 mission. The discussion I present to you in this report is an interview I arranged from questions and answers accomplished by YouTube Account/General Messages. I sent my questions to his account on August 14, 2008, after some contacts by YouTube taken place since May 2008, in which he had already revealed:
1) to be a former NASA astronaut;
2) to be the (survived) Apollo 19 Commander (CMDR), and that <<since William decided to tell the truth>>, he thinks <<it's the right moment to do the same>>.
Moreover - on July 24, 2008 - in another message he disclosed his alleged identity, with name, surname and his former space missions as astronaut for NASA. I prefer not revealing it - as he has suggested - until more and new elements will be disclosed at last.
If "moonwalker1966delta" has told me the truth about his identity and this will be confirmed, his courageous gesture could change forever the human history and our perspective of humanity's role in the Universe. The Pentagon, NASA and the Russian Government - in my humble opinion - could take advantage of the revelation: helping to widen mankind horizons in every dimension, both physical and spiritual, and helping to stop the energy crisis, could improve the US and Russia reputations, and to level the current divergences among Mosca and Washington.
As I have already written in a former report, It would be a good thing to disclose and spread the truth about the reality of the extraterrestrial intelligence in the Universe, through an unknown historical fact in which the two great powers of the World of the past (the USA and the USSR) joined together for scientific and peaceful activities, in spite of all their differences and political hostilities.
As pointed out by William Rutledge in one of his comments on YouTube: <<[…] the apollo 20 belongs to all mankind It is a part of all human's heritage>>.
Virgilio wrote: <<Carpent tua poma nepotes>>. The Apollo 20 patch quotes it. Maybe we are those grandchildren…
THE INTERVIEW WITH "MOONWALKER1966DELTA"
- FIRST PART -
In the following interview I have just put the right spaces, and corrected a few orthographical mistakes that there were in our messages (e.g. I have put the right capital letters, like "I" instead of "i", "Earth" instead of "earth", likely written in a hurry, ect.), but I did not change the syntactical construction of the sentences made by "moonwalker1966delta", who - in my opinion - from his English seems an American-English native land, or someone who knows English very well.
1) Luca Scantamburlo: First of all, I want to thank you for your precious time and your kindness. Your YouTube user name is “moonwalker1966delta”. In our contacts you did not provide documents which can prove who you are, but you revealed to me your name and surname; you have also declared that you are a former NASA astronaut and you have been “Apollo 19 CMDR”, where I know that CMDR, like CDR, means Commander. Of course I have been protecting your identity as I have promised, and I will omitt the names of NASA astronauts involved and that you have mentioned, at least for the moment. I wish they will speak out, sooner or later. Can you explain why you have chosen that user name? I think just some clues – if you prefer – could be enough. By the way, last year I recevied an e-mail about the Apollo 20 case from a former American pilot who wrote:
<<There is no doubt that the U.S. has been on the moon since 1962 but it did not use rocket propulsion to do this. However rocket launches of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo were used as a cover for the secret program. It is very possible that there were several Apollo launches both before and after the official Apollo program but they would have been launched from Diego Garcia, Kwajalein or Australia (possibly Melville Island) or another secret launch area. A Saturn V launched from Vandenberg although possible seems unlikely because of the size of the rocket and the fact that it was going to the moon. The rotational speed of the earth is significant in all Saturn launches and therefore the launch has to be generally eastbound. Since an eastbound launch out of Vandenberg would be very unlikely [...]>>
Unfortunately I have never received answer from him, notwithstanding my several e-mails. That's why I have decided to spread part of his e-mail text. Can you comment on his opinion?
moonwalker1966delta: Dear Luca thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about this matter and all that is related. Honestly I don't know if we have been on the moon since 1962 but I don't agree with it for the simple reason we didn't have the technology to do that and because I followed step by step the lunar missions and the moon era starting from Mercury and Gemini missions to Apollo program and I have never heard about any previous possible mission to the moon.
We launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base and the launch tower and complex has been carried there by sea. One simple assembly building, now shortered for the space shuttle military missions. The LUT tower was same model, the crawler too.
Mission control was locatedin Yevpatoria for Russia and Vandenberg for USA. To say that launching from Vandenberg for a moon mission would be impossible or quite difficult it's completely wrong and to say that rotational speed of the earth is significant in space launches is also wrong. A classic example could be the launch of Clementine 1 unmanned spacecraft to the moon from Vandenberg Air Force Base on January 25 1994. In reality it is possible to launch a spacecraft to the moon from everywhere on the earth, the only difference would be the longest time and biggest fuel consumption during TLI to insert in the correct trans lunar trajectory.I know that someone used a software to simulate an apollo launch from Vandenberg and the result has been that the first stage and the second stage would have crashed in Arizona and South Georgia. That is true! But if you take a look at the first stage separation footage of Apollo 11 for example and the Apollo 20 Rutldedge's footage you will notice for sure that the altitude it separated at is much much higher then apollo 11 altitude and the separation speed is much slower and the only reason for it is to make the first and second stage to be yet attracted by earth gravity but enough high to ensure they completely destroy during reentry into the atmosphere.
About my nickname I can say that it represents in only 3 words my inner personal universe and all I have been attracted to. Moonwalker because I walked on the moon. 1966 because during Gemini 10 from 18 to 21 of July 1966 I operated the first computer and delta because it usually indicates a technology resulting from alien technology or generally indicating an alien interference.
2) L.S. William Rutledge (Apollo 20 CDR) told me that you – crew members of Apollo 19 - were lost in space at the end of TLI maneuver. Since your first answer to my YouTube Account/General Messages – on May 12, 2008 – it touched me on the raw the fact you told me that - in spite of the difficulties - you survived. You said to me:
<<I really don't know nor understand why William said we had been lost in space. That's not true. It's true we have been hit by something>>.
And this last thing is what William Rutledge told us. Morever you affirmed in your first message to me, dated May 12 2008:
<<we still don't know what caused a light loss of gyroscopic inertial vector a sudden breakdown of electrical power bus unit and a completely loss of telemetry. We had smoke and light fire on the frontal panel but we have been able to extinguish it at once. As soon as we had electrical power again we stopped manually giroscopic movement. Fortunatly we still have radio contact with Houston and as soon as [name omitted] and [name omitted] entered the simulator we have been able to receive remote telemetry data in voice with [name omitted] and Houston.>>
So – please, correct me if I am wrong - it means that Apollo 19 launching pad was in California and then – after the launch - you were assisted by Houston Mission Control (in Texas), and not by Vandenberg Air Force Base, which is in California?
By the way: on June 24, 2007, I received a message by William Rutledge in which he said to me:
<< Hi Luca, yes i confirm, mission control was in Vandenberg NOT Nasa, it was a political mess, nasa provided the vehicle, it was a russian condition, the vehicle to be a civilian one. Sub contractors helped, except ILC dover , who was not a pure military contractor. Mission control in Vandenberg was slightly different, 5 rooms instead of a big one, little but efficient.>>
Can you comment on it?
moonwalker1966delta: yes that's correct. Mission control for USA was in Vandenberg AFB but we have been forced to use Houston mission control for contingency situation due to incident occured because the simulator Armstrong and Aldrin used was located at KSC and telemetry link data of the simulator was directly connected to Houston mission control as in usual Apollo Missions. That's why from that moment we used radio and data link with Houston mission control only.
3) L.S. In your message I mentioned in question nr. 2 of the interview, you said:
<<We had to be back up crew of Apollo 19 but since the original crew has been cancelled about 3 weeks before launch we became the mission crew while [name omitted] and [name omitted] have been selected as back up crew. [...] we haven't got women on board but another official Apollo program astronaut as pilot and another russian cosmonaut with exceptional medical skills.>>
What can you tell me about Stephanie Ellis (Abidjan, Ivory Coast, 1946 - ? 1976)? Was she a member of the Apollo 19 original crew, later on cancelled? And can you confirm the identity of the Soviet cosmonaut scheduled for Apollo 19? William Rutledge told me he was “Aleksei Sorokin” (YouTube message received by me on July 15, 2007). I spread this information to the public for the first time. What happened to them?
moonwalker1966delta: Yes I confirm original Apollo 19 crew members were Stephanie Ellis Aleksei Sorokin and John Swigert. John died in 1982 for cancer but Stephanie and Aleksei disappeared in 1975 and 1976. I don't know the real reason they have been removed from Apollo 19 crew but someone said Stephanie was talking around too much about Apollo 19 mission and the moon spacecraft. I heard she died at the end of 1975 during a training flight.
4) L.S. Have you ever met Leona Marietta Snyder, Apollo 20 CSP?
moonwalker1966delta: Yes I met Leona Snyder and William 2 months after Apollo 20 reentry during a secret conference at KSC and again in 1993 at a restaurant in San Antonio with Leonov and David Scott.
5) L.S. Can you tell me when and where - if it happened - did you meet William Rutledge for the first and the last time?
moonwalker1966delta: The first time I met William was in 1974 at JSP where I have been selected as chief of astronauts. I was training for Apollo 19 and when I knew the names of Apollo 20 crew I ask to meet him and I have been very impressed about his knowledge of alien technology we are working about at that time. The last time has been in San Antonio in 1993.
[...]
The end of the first part of the interview
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance International Press
September 15, 2008
Reproduction is allowed on the Web if accompanied by the statement
© L. Scantamburlo - www.angelismarriti.it
Reproduced by permission.
For reprinting this article-interview on magazines and newspapers, ask the permission to Luca Scantamburlo.
APOLLO 20: FOR THE SOVIETS
THE MISSION CONTROL WAS IN YEVPATORIYA
The revelations by "moonwalker1966delta" confirm Rutledge's testimony
In one of his first messages sent to me, William Rutledge (aka "retiredafb") told me that for the Soviets the Apollo 20 mission control was in Yevpatoriya. "moonwalker1966delta" has confirmed this detail (above, see his answer to question nr. 1).
Here you are - spread to the general public - part of a Rutledge's message, never revealed before by me:
<<[...] Russians had another mission control in Yevpatoria, Lyosha could take his orders from there , anyway there was no interference between russians and US military. I saw your note about medals... We were fired out any space program. The american space program fell abruptly after Jimmy carter's election. Gerald Ford was a big fan of space program, cooperation between CCCP and USA was very active, he had clear views about the space shuttle program. In august 1976, he was busy about elections and didn't participated or watched any part of the adventure.>>
"retiredafb" on YouTube - in a message to Luca Scantamburlo (YouTube Account/General Messages, June 24, 2007), the same message mentioned in my question nr. 2 of the interview to "moonwalker1966delta".
In May 2007 - at the beginning of our contacts - William Rutledge wrote to me about two other towns:
<<[...] i'm forced to use a anonymizer program. I'm still very carefull , and i wish, if it is ok for you, to reply on this youtube adress.
You can ask me everythig , i'll just have to give the names of employees of the lower class, other names will not be a problem.>>
<<[...] the chief of the russian programm was in the Ural, in the towns of Nijni Tagil and Sverdlovsk (today Yekaterinburg).>>
"retiredafb" on YouTube - in a message to Luca Scantamburlo (YouTube Account/General Messages, May 18, 2007).
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance Internationl Press
September 15, 2008
THE INTERVIEW WITH "MOONWALKER1966DELTA"
- SECOND PART -
On September 24, 2008, on my YouTube account I received some answers by "moonwalker1966delta": to questions nr. 8, 10, 11 and 12. No answer for questions nr. 6,7 and 9 yet. I do not know the reasons. Moreover, they are still missing answers to questions nr. 13 and 14. For the following second part of the interview - as usual - I have just put the right spaces and the right capital letters, like "I" instead of "i", likely written in a hurry, ect., but I did not change the syntactical construction of the sentences made by "moonwalker1966delta".
8) L.S. What can you tell me about Charles Peter Conrad and James Irwin as CapCom? Moreover, have you ever met prof. Valentin Alexeiev, mentioned by W. Rutledge as the presumed person in charge of the mission in Soviet Union, and who would have become later on the President of the Academy of Science in Urals?
moonwalker1966delta: Yes I can confirm Charles Peter Conrad and James Irwin as CAPCOM of Apollo 20 and no I have never personally met Alexeiev though he has been the Soviet Mission Director for my mission too.10) L.S. What were your mission targets, as Apollo 19 crew?
moonwalker1966delta: Our main targets were one of the triangular object located south of the main mothership, the mothership herself and the moon base located SW of the mothership. Our landing site was the same of Apollo 20. Soviets launched the SL-12 2 months before our mission and Luna 21 landed on the west side of the crater. Apollo 20 used Lunokhod 2 as a radio beacon to land exactly on the second largest rockstair not far from Luna 21. Rutledge and Leonov made and extensive use of Lunokhod 2 due to it's highly sophisticated equipment necessary for this kind of mission not only the 4 panoramic telephotometers but also the X-ray scope combined with laser telemeter and the radiation detector to verify the possible radiations emitted by the ship and the base.
11) L.S. What can you tell me about the origin of the alien spacecrafts resting on the backside of the Moon: the cigar-shaped object and the two triangles? Is there any relationship among them? And can you give me once again – as you have already done in a private message - the lunar coordinates of the triangle objects, never revealed before?
moonwalker1966delta: The origin of the two objects the mothership and the alien base were the same. Same materials and same age. We think they have been shot down during a sort of "lunar Pearl Harbor". The base has been completely destroyed and the mothership and the 2 spacecraft shot down during and emergency take off. That is what William and Leonov thought too. As I previously answered in our private message the 2 objects are clearly visible in AS15-P-9625 and AS15-P-9630 in the upper side of the pic and just right of the mothership at coordinates 18.7S - 116.92E and 18.31S - 117.48E. You can notice they are absolutly identical in their triangular shape. If you use a software like NASA World Wind it could be easy to locate them and notice the green metallic brilliance of the first object.12) L.S. Lunar coordinates of the presumed alien space mothership: Nose 17.3 deg S, 117.62 deg E; Cockpit 17.15 deg S, 117.62 deg E; Base 17.20 deg S, 117.62 deg E. Were they given us inverted? The longitude is coherent with the position of the huge object (approximately 4 km long). The problem is with the latitude: not with the latitude data, but with their reference to the major parts of the object (the nose and the base). We should have their reversal, in my opinion. What do you think?
moonwalker1966delta: We had to do the same footage and follow the same path. If you follow the path of the LM in the first part of the footage and compare it on a lunar map you will see that is coherent with the subtitles and the camera we had to use would have been a 16mm Maurer motion picture cameras with 10mm lenses with the Data Acquisition Camera Mount connected to the the window sliding rail through a knob. In the second part of the video the footage is provided by mounting a photolens of 75 mm with it's aperture aligned to the LM X axis + 1 degree and usually used to film the outdoor CM manouvers and alignments.In this second part of the footage the trajectory is not coherent to the previous trajectory nor to the subtitles. I think the second part has been inverted and the subtitles followed the inverted images providing the right coordinates but in the opposite sequence. The video must be seen reverted from the bottom to the cockpit and the subtitles indications must be reverted too leaving the coordinates data unchanged. That's my idea.
[...]
The end of the second part
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance Internationl Press
October 11, 2008
AUGUST 2008, ANOTHER WHISTLEBLOWER SPEAKS OUT:
"ANONYMOUS ATS"
Weeks ago I had an e-mail contact with Bill Ryan (Project Camelot) concerning the Apollo 20 case and William Rutledge's footage, especially the footage about the EBE "Mona Lisa" spread by "retiredafb" on revver.com.
B. Ryan told me that many people think the footage is a fake but - at the same time - he pointed out a very interesting topic on AboveTopSecret (ATS) forum, where last August an anonymous individual wrote something that I should have read it.
The title of the topic is “Apollo 20 update”, begun in April 2008. The remarkable intervention is the one posted at 09:50 PM on August 14, 2008, by “Anonymous ATS”.
The whistleblower is - according to the written testimony - the son of a former NRO employee who years ago - before to die because of an "inoperable cancer" - revealed a secret which has always been a weight on his chest: to have participated, as member of a Mission control team, to <<[…] an ultra-black project in the mid-70's that sent another mission to the moon to investigate a particularly provacative anomaly>>.
NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) is a very important intelligence agency, and "Anonymous ATS" is right when he says <<[...] It was declassified in 1992...>>.
Well, there are some details told by this whistleblower very close to the aspects of Rutledge's story: same year (1976) in which the black operation would have been occured, same location for the Mission Control (Vandenberg AFB) and same goal: investigating a lunar singularity, which in 1973 <<[...] was confirmed>> as <<[...] in fact a derelict spacecraft>>.
There are also some inconsistencies: for example a different position from where to launch the spacecraft - not Vandenberg but an island in the Indian Ocean - and no signs of triangular objects and no extraterrestrial creatures recovered.
But the whistleblower told us also that <<[...] My father said that the project was highly compartmentalized so he did not know the whole story>>.
Here you have the main points made by "Anonymous ATS" about his father's story:
<< [...]
1. He did not mention anything about "Apollo 20" and never even gave a formal name. In addition, there were no markings on the rocket or spacecraft. This operation was entirely off the books. No one on the operation used their real names, that's how far it went.
2. Mission Control was located at Vandenburg AFB. The actual launch was on the island of Diego Garcia. This island was located in the Indian Ocean along the equator with virtually nothing around it. This site was chosen because if launched to the East, the rocket would have nearly 12,000 miles of unbroken water to help cover the tracks. It was accepted people would see the launch wherever it was, this site would limit that.
3. The project was initiated, by Nixon's orders, in late 1971. My father's work began on the project began in 1974. The actual mission took place in 1976. My father said that he underwent an intensive psychological exam before he was selected to join the program. He said he thought he was bought in mainly because he "could be trusted".
4. The actual mission consisted of 3 American astronauts whose names he would not mention. He said that these men had been trained for nearly 4 years specifically for this mission. He also said that in 1973 it was confirmed the object was in fact a derelict spacecraft. He reviewed this pictures personally when selected for the project.
5. The spacecraft was speculated to be roughly 1.5 million years old, although he was not allowed access to that exact information. The ship was badly decayed from meteor impacts and the ancient crash. The ship was cigar shaped, and massive, the section was roughly 1 mile. Evidence suggested it been explored before us. No alien remains were found. 300kg of artifacts were stripped and brought back. My father described what he called "strange hieroglyphs and markings" covering what was assumed to be the the "cockpit" of the craft.
6. At least 2 other governments were involved with the project. My father said he worked with a British analyst and he knew of a smaller team in Australia but wasn't sure the Australian government were exactly aware of what our men were doing.
[...] >>
from: Apollo 20 update, Topic started on 9-4-2008 @ 09:33 AM by JohnnyRaincheckd
reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 09:50 PM by Anonymous ATS
Thanks to AboveTopSecret (ATS)
About point nr. 3, as the matter of fact in May 1972 U.S. President Richard Nixon and the Soviet politican Kossygin - in spite of the Cold War times - signed in Moscow an important agreement on Space and technology: a five years agreement of cooperation among United States and Soviet Union: <<Agreement Concerning Cooperation in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space for Peaceful Purposes.>> That's why the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project (ASTP) was possible.
But most important it is the fact that some of the details of this presumed and unknown piece of XX Century history, are coherent with some aspects told me by William Rutledge (the alleged Apollo 20 CDR) by YouTube messages, but aspects I have never revealed to the general public so far: I am doing now it on this Web page, showing the snapshots of our contacts as evidence.
For example the "Anonymous ATS" has written:
<<[…] there were no markings on the rocket or spacecraft>>.
On June 6, 2007, I received a message by William Rutledge in which he told me that:
<<[…] On the lift off sequence, the saturn 5 has no markings till the third stage. […] In vandenberg, the saturn V launch had to be not reconizable, no BW lines or USA marks on the rocket. Only the last ring was black painted, and it could look like an ordinary Delta rocket at 4 miles distance.>>.
from Luca Scantamburlo's YouTube account, message by "retiredafb" (received on June 6, 2007, 01:37 AM)
Moreover, "Anonymous ATS" has reported in his point nr.6 about at least two other Governments involved in the classified project:
<<6. At least 2 other governments were involved with the project. My father said he worked with a British analyst and he knew of a smaller team in Australia but wasn't sure the Australian government were exactly aware of what our men were doing.>>
On May 23, 2007, 06:12 AM (at the beginning of our contacts) I received a YouTube message by William Rutledge where he wrote me that:
<<[…] about nation involved
1 As far as i know, it’s USA and Russia, but i would not be surprised if france is on this program, MHD and anti matter is used in this country.>>
from Luca Scantamburlo's YouTube account, message by "retiredafb" (received on May 23, 2007, 06:12 AM)
And at 09:26 am on July 15, 2007, I received a message by William Rutledge where he wrote that:
<<[…] I'd like to post the genuine sound but they are on separated tapes. Many people , radio amateur were tracking the apollo missions , so the sound was coded and was separated from video , secrecy was kept unless i think than French and British got the tv feeds (m' not sure of this).>>
from Luca Scantamburlo's YouTube account, message by "retiredafb" (received on July 15, 2007, 09:26 AM)
In the snapshots here presented, the public will find more information told me by William Rutledge, not discussed by me in this report.
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance Internationl Press
October 11, 2008
A YOUTUBE USER - CLAIMS TO BE A FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT
by Luca Scantamburlo
INTRODUCTION
Since May 2007 I have been investigating as freelancer an intrigant case on which so far there is an embarrassing silence in the mass media world: the Apollo 19/20 case, about classified USAF missions - officially never occured - by NASA assistance and the collaboration of the Soviets.
It seems that up to now only Kevin Smith – see his interview with me in October 2007, during his radio talk The Kevin Smith Show (live from Phoenix, Arizona) has opened a honest discussion on the controversial topic.
Among not many reports on the issue, I want to point out the one written by Steve Johnson for a British bi-monthly publication: The Apollo XX Controversy, pages 31-35, UFO Data Magazine, November-December 2007; it is fair and keeps an open mind.
We know the Apollo 19/20 case is a jungle composed by truth and fake; there are contradictory aspects and some misleading data, but at the same time very interesting videos never seen before, official evidence of symmetrical (artificial?) objects resting on the lunar surface, some detailed information on Space exploration and Space flight, and an historical context where to read this astonishing story. My opinion is we are facing some kernels of truth, very important for the mankind's future.
The target of the above-mentioned and presumed military space missions would have been the far side of the Moon, where to explore and collect data about some mysterious and huge objects resting over there; among them, two triangle objects and a huge cigar-shaped object, apparently ancient extraterrestrial space ships.
The insider who - since April 2007 by YouTube - has been telling the story is “retiredafb” (that's his YouTube user name), who claims to be William Rutledge, an American citizen and a former civilian test pilot that would have employed in the last century with Avro, Chance Vought and the USAF, before taking part in Apollo 20 as commander (CDR). The other two crew members of Apollo 20: Leona Marietta Snyder (as CSP) and the famous cosmonaut Alexei Leonov (as LMP).
According to Rutledge's testimony, Apollo 20 was a secret joint US and Soviet space mission that occured in August 1976 (launch from Vandenberg AFB: August 16), about one year after the famous Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, which launched in July 1975 (Apollo 18 and Soyuz 19).
Kindly at the end of May 2007 “retiredafb” granted me an interview (not by e-mail) by the YouTube General messages service; an interview which I was able to arrange and spread on my website: www.angelismarriti.it; as journalist I thought the story told by “retiredafb” about Apollo 19 and 20 was worthy of attention.
Just to give you an example, an indirect and possible confirmation of the story could be the not well-known ASTP memorial flags signed by Alexei Leonov; P.R. - one Italian citizen who has been following my reports since August 2007 - has found the official link of USSR-AIRSPACE.COM: you can see that the flags look like the mission patch aboard the Constellation, presumed Apollo 20 CSM; even on revver.com another user pointed out the same link.
Rutledge's last job before retiring was working on the KH-11 project (USAF). He explained me also that the ASTP (Apollo-Soyuz Test Project) was the preparatory mission to Apollo 19; and later Apollo 20, after the presumed failure of Apollo 19 and the presumed loss of its crew. Therefore Apollo 20, a classified mission to the Moon alleged by William Rutledge to have taken place aboard a Saturn V moon rocket, would have been preceded by Apollo 19. In recollecting the dramatic loss of the Apollo 19 spacecraft and of its crew, it was an amazing thing to me how William Rutledge was more precise about it before what he told me in the interview (see answer nr.13); on May 23 2007, he told me in our contacts (see Fig.3) that:
<<Apollo 19 had a loss of telemetry wheile being at the end of the TLI, it was not clearly explained at this time, but it is beleived, it was a natural phenomemon, a collision of the aircraft and one of Cruithne brother, who was not identified in 1976. >>
May 23, 2007, 06:12 PM, from my YouTube Account
At the moment William Rutledge (born in Belgium in 1930, in Grembergen, he specified in his user-card on-line on YouTube) moved to another website of files sharing: revver.com, where he has registered himself with the same nickname used on YouTube : “retiredafb”. You can see some of his videos at the following address:
http://revver.com/u/retiredafb/
"MOONWALKER1966DELTA" SPEAKS OUT
Later on another YouTube user - by the name of "moonwalker1966delta" - has been beginning to spread alleged classified short videos about Apollo 20 mission. The discussion I present to you in this report is an interview I arranged from questions and answers accomplished by YouTube Account/General Messages. I sent my questions to his account on August 14, 2008, after some contacts by YouTube taken place since May 2008, in which he had already revealed:
1) to be a former NASA astronaut;
2) to be the (survived) Apollo 19 Commander (CMDR), and that <<since William decided to tell the truth>>, he thinks <<it's the right moment to do the same>>.
Moreover - on July 24, 2008 - in another message he disclosed his alleged identity, with name, surname and his former space missions as astronaut for NASA. I prefer not revealing it - as he has suggested - until more and new elements will be disclosed at last.
If "moonwalker1966delta" has told me the truth about his identity and this will be confirmed, his courageous gesture could change forever the human history and our perspective of humanity's role in the Universe. The Pentagon, NASA and the Russian Government - in my humble opinion - could take advantage of the revelation: helping to widen mankind horizons in every dimension, both physical and spiritual, and helping to stop the energy crisis, could improve the US and Russia reputations, and to level the current divergences among Mosca and Washington.
As I have already written in a former report, It would be a good thing to disclose and spread the truth about the reality of the extraterrestrial intelligence in the Universe, through an unknown historical fact in which the two great powers of the World of the past (the USA and the USSR) joined together for scientific and peaceful activities, in spite of all their differences and political hostilities.
As pointed out by William Rutledge in one of his comments on YouTube: <<[…] the apollo 20 belongs to all mankind It is a part of all human's heritage>>.
Virgilio wrote: <<Carpent tua poma nepotes>>. The Apollo 20 patch quotes it. Maybe we are those grandchildren…
THE INTERVIEW WITH "MOONWALKER1966DELTA"
- FIRST PART -
In the following interview I have just put the right spaces, and corrected a few orthographical mistakes that there were in our messages (e.g. I have put the right capital letters, like "I" instead of "i", "Earth" instead of "earth", likely written in a hurry, ect.), but I did not change the syntactical construction of the sentences made by "moonwalker1966delta", who - in my opinion - from his English seems an American-English native land, or someone who knows English very well.
1) Luca Scantamburlo: First of all, I want to thank you for your precious time and your kindness. Your YouTube user name is “moonwalker1966delta”. In our contacts you did not provide documents which can prove who you are, but you revealed to me your name and surname; you have also declared that you are a former NASA astronaut and you have been “Apollo 19 CMDR”, where I know that CMDR, like CDR, means Commander. Of course I have been protecting your identity as I have promised, and I will omitt the names of NASA astronauts involved and that you have mentioned, at least for the moment. I wish they will speak out, sooner or later. Can you explain why you have chosen that user name? I think just some clues – if you prefer – could be enough. By the way, last year I recevied an e-mail about the Apollo 20 case from a former American pilot who wrote:
<<There is no doubt that the U.S. has been on the moon since 1962 but it did not use rocket propulsion to do this. However rocket launches of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo were used as a cover for the secret program. It is very possible that there were several Apollo launches both before and after the official Apollo program but they would have been launched from Diego Garcia, Kwajalein or Australia (possibly Melville Island) or another secret launch area. A Saturn V launched from Vandenberg although possible seems unlikely because of the size of the rocket and the fact that it was going to the moon. The rotational speed of the earth is significant in all Saturn launches and therefore the launch has to be generally eastbound. Since an eastbound launch out of Vandenberg would be very unlikely [...]>>
Unfortunately I have never received answer from him, notwithstanding my several e-mails. That's why I have decided to spread part of his e-mail text. Can you comment on his opinion?
moonwalker1966delta: Dear Luca thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about this matter and all that is related. Honestly I don't know if we have been on the moon since 1962 but I don't agree with it for the simple reason we didn't have the technology to do that and because I followed step by step the lunar missions and the moon era starting from Mercury and Gemini missions to Apollo program and I have never heard about any previous possible mission to the moon.
We launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base and the launch tower and complex has been carried there by sea. One simple assembly building, now shortered for the space shuttle military missions. The LUT tower was same model, the crawler too.
Mission control was locatedin Yevpatoria for Russia and Vandenberg for USA. To say that launching from Vandenberg for a moon mission would be impossible or quite difficult it's completely wrong and to say that rotational speed of the earth is significant in space launches is also wrong. A classic example could be the launch of Clementine 1 unmanned spacecraft to the moon from Vandenberg Air Force Base on January 25 1994. In reality it is possible to launch a spacecraft to the moon from everywhere on the earth, the only difference would be the longest time and biggest fuel consumption during TLI to insert in the correct trans lunar trajectory.I know that someone used a software to simulate an apollo launch from Vandenberg and the result has been that the first stage and the second stage would have crashed in Arizona and South Georgia. That is true! But if you take a look at the first stage separation footage of Apollo 11 for example and the Apollo 20 Rutldedge's footage you will notice for sure that the altitude it separated at is much much higher then apollo 11 altitude and the separation speed is much slower and the only reason for it is to make the first and second stage to be yet attracted by earth gravity but enough high to ensure they completely destroy during reentry into the atmosphere.
About my nickname I can say that it represents in only 3 words my inner personal universe and all I have been attracted to. Moonwalker because I walked on the moon. 1966 because during Gemini 10 from 18 to 21 of July 1966 I operated the first computer and delta because it usually indicates a technology resulting from alien technology or generally indicating an alien interference.
2) L.S. William Rutledge (Apollo 20 CDR) told me that you – crew members of Apollo 19 - were lost in space at the end of TLI maneuver. Since your first answer to my YouTube Account/General Messages – on May 12, 2008 – it touched me on the raw the fact you told me that - in spite of the difficulties - you survived. You said to me:
<<I really don't know nor understand why William said we had been lost in space. That's not true. It's true we have been hit by something>>.
And this last thing is what William Rutledge told us. Morever you affirmed in your first message to me, dated May 12 2008:
<<we still don't know what caused a light loss of gyroscopic inertial vector a sudden breakdown of electrical power bus unit and a completely loss of telemetry. We had smoke and light fire on the frontal panel but we have been able to extinguish it at once. As soon as we had electrical power again we stopped manually giroscopic movement. Fortunatly we still have radio contact with Houston and as soon as [name omitted] and [name omitted] entered the simulator we have been able to receive remote telemetry data in voice with [name omitted] and Houston.>>
So – please, correct me if I am wrong - it means that Apollo 19 launching pad was in California and then – after the launch - you were assisted by Houston Mission Control (in Texas), and not by Vandenberg Air Force Base, which is in California?
By the way: on June 24, 2007, I received a message by William Rutledge in which he said to me:
<< Hi Luca, yes i confirm, mission control was in Vandenberg NOT Nasa, it was a political mess, nasa provided the vehicle, it was a russian condition, the vehicle to be a civilian one. Sub contractors helped, except ILC dover , who was not a pure military contractor. Mission control in Vandenberg was slightly different, 5 rooms instead of a big one, little but efficient.>>
Can you comment on it?
moonwalker1966delta: yes that's correct. Mission control for USA was in Vandenberg AFB but we have been forced to use Houston mission control for contingency situation due to incident occured because the simulator Armstrong and Aldrin used was located at KSC and telemetry link data of the simulator was directly connected to Houston mission control as in usual Apollo Missions. That's why from that moment we used radio and data link with Houston mission control only.
3) L.S. In your message I mentioned in question nr. 2 of the interview, you said:
<<We had to be back up crew of Apollo 19 but since the original crew has been cancelled about 3 weeks before launch we became the mission crew while [name omitted] and [name omitted] have been selected as back up crew. [...] we haven't got women on board but another official Apollo program astronaut as pilot and another russian cosmonaut with exceptional medical skills.>>
What can you tell me about Stephanie Ellis (Abidjan, Ivory Coast, 1946 - ? 1976)? Was she a member of the Apollo 19 original crew, later on cancelled? And can you confirm the identity of the Soviet cosmonaut scheduled for Apollo 19? William Rutledge told me he was “Aleksei Sorokin” (YouTube message received by me on July 15, 2007). I spread this information to the public for the first time. What happened to them?
moonwalker1966delta: Yes I confirm original Apollo 19 crew members were Stephanie Ellis Aleksei Sorokin and John Swigert. John died in 1982 for cancer but Stephanie and Aleksei disappeared in 1975 and 1976. I don't know the real reason they have been removed from Apollo 19 crew but someone said Stephanie was talking around too much about Apollo 19 mission and the moon spacecraft. I heard she died at the end of 1975 during a training flight.
4) L.S. Have you ever met Leona Marietta Snyder, Apollo 20 CSP?
moonwalker1966delta: Yes I met Leona Snyder and William 2 months after Apollo 20 reentry during a secret conference at KSC and again in 1993 at a restaurant in San Antonio with Leonov and David Scott.
5) L.S. Can you tell me when and where - if it happened - did you meet William Rutledge for the first and the last time?
moonwalker1966delta: The first time I met William was in 1974 at JSP where I have been selected as chief of astronauts. I was training for Apollo 19 and when I knew the names of Apollo 20 crew I ask to meet him and I have been very impressed about his knowledge of alien technology we are working about at that time. The last time has been in San Antonio in 1993.
[...]
The end of the first part of the interview
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance International Press
September 15, 2008
Reproduction is allowed on the Web if accompanied by the statement
© L. Scantamburlo - www.angelismarriti.it
Reproduced by permission.
For reprinting this article-interview on magazines and newspapers, ask the permission to Luca Scantamburlo.
APOLLO 20: FOR THE SOVIETS
THE MISSION CONTROL WAS IN YEVPATORIYA
The revelations by "moonwalker1966delta" confirm Rutledge's testimony
In one of his first messages sent to me, William Rutledge (aka "retiredafb") told me that for the Soviets the Apollo 20 mission control was in Yevpatoriya. "moonwalker1966delta" has confirmed this detail (above, see his answer to question nr. 1).
Here you are - spread to the general public - part of a Rutledge's message, never revealed before by me:
<<[...] Russians had another mission control in Yevpatoria, Lyosha could take his orders from there , anyway there was no interference between russians and US military. I saw your note about medals... We were fired out any space program. The american space program fell abruptly after Jimmy carter's election. Gerald Ford was a big fan of space program, cooperation between CCCP and USA was very active, he had clear views about the space shuttle program. In august 1976, he was busy about elections and didn't participated or watched any part of the adventure.>>
"retiredafb" on YouTube - in a message to Luca Scantamburlo (YouTube Account/General Messages, June 24, 2007), the same message mentioned in my question nr. 2 of the interview to "moonwalker1966delta".
In May 2007 - at the beginning of our contacts - William Rutledge wrote to me about two other towns:
<<[...] i'm forced to use a anonymizer program. I'm still very carefull , and i wish, if it is ok for you, to reply on this youtube adress.
You can ask me everythig , i'll just have to give the names of employees of the lower class, other names will not be a problem.>>
<<[...] the chief of the russian programm was in the Ural, in the towns of Nijni Tagil and Sverdlovsk (today Yekaterinburg).>>
"retiredafb" on YouTube - in a message to Luca Scantamburlo (YouTube Account/General Messages, May 18, 2007).
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance Internationl Press
September 15, 2008
THE INTERVIEW WITH "MOONWALKER1966DELTA"
- SECOND PART -
On September 24, 2008, on my YouTube account I received some answers by "moonwalker1966delta": to questions nr. 8, 10, 11 and 12. No answer for questions nr. 6,7 and 9 yet. I do not know the reasons. Moreover, they are still missing answers to questions nr. 13 and 14. For the following second part of the interview - as usual - I have just put the right spaces and the right capital letters, like "I" instead of "i", likely written in a hurry, ect., but I did not change the syntactical construction of the sentences made by "moonwalker1966delta".
8) L.S. What can you tell me about Charles Peter Conrad and James Irwin as CapCom? Moreover, have you ever met prof. Valentin Alexeiev, mentioned by W. Rutledge as the presumed person in charge of the mission in Soviet Union, and who would have become later on the President of the Academy of Science in Urals?
moonwalker1966delta: Yes I can confirm Charles Peter Conrad and James Irwin as CAPCOM of Apollo 20 and no I have never personally met Alexeiev though he has been the Soviet Mission Director for my mission too.10) L.S. What were your mission targets, as Apollo 19 crew?
moonwalker1966delta: Our main targets were one of the triangular object located south of the main mothership, the mothership herself and the moon base located SW of the mothership. Our landing site was the same of Apollo 20. Soviets launched the SL-12 2 months before our mission and Luna 21 landed on the west side of the crater. Apollo 20 used Lunokhod 2 as a radio beacon to land exactly on the second largest rockstair not far from Luna 21. Rutledge and Leonov made and extensive use of Lunokhod 2 due to it's highly sophisticated equipment necessary for this kind of mission not only the 4 panoramic telephotometers but also the X-ray scope combined with laser telemeter and the radiation detector to verify the possible radiations emitted by the ship and the base.
11) L.S. What can you tell me about the origin of the alien spacecrafts resting on the backside of the Moon: the cigar-shaped object and the two triangles? Is there any relationship among them? And can you give me once again – as you have already done in a private message - the lunar coordinates of the triangle objects, never revealed before?
moonwalker1966delta: The origin of the two objects the mothership and the alien base were the same. Same materials and same age. We think they have been shot down during a sort of "lunar Pearl Harbor". The base has been completely destroyed and the mothership and the 2 spacecraft shot down during and emergency take off. That is what William and Leonov thought too. As I previously answered in our private message the 2 objects are clearly visible in AS15-P-9625 and AS15-P-9630 in the upper side of the pic and just right of the mothership at coordinates 18.7S - 116.92E and 18.31S - 117.48E. You can notice they are absolutly identical in their triangular shape. If you use a software like NASA World Wind it could be easy to locate them and notice the green metallic brilliance of the first object.12) L.S. Lunar coordinates of the presumed alien space mothership: Nose 17.3 deg S, 117.62 deg E; Cockpit 17.15 deg S, 117.62 deg E; Base 17.20 deg S, 117.62 deg E. Were they given us inverted? The longitude is coherent with the position of the huge object (approximately 4 km long). The problem is with the latitude: not with the latitude data, but with their reference to the major parts of the object (the nose and the base). We should have their reversal, in my opinion. What do you think?
moonwalker1966delta: We had to do the same footage and follow the same path. If you follow the path of the LM in the first part of the footage and compare it on a lunar map you will see that is coherent with the subtitles and the camera we had to use would have been a 16mm Maurer motion picture cameras with 10mm lenses with the Data Acquisition Camera Mount connected to the the window sliding rail through a knob. In the second part of the video the footage is provided by mounting a photolens of 75 mm with it's aperture aligned to the LM X axis + 1 degree and usually used to film the outdoor CM manouvers and alignments.In this second part of the footage the trajectory is not coherent to the previous trajectory nor to the subtitles. I think the second part has been inverted and the subtitles followed the inverted images providing the right coordinates but in the opposite sequence. The video must be seen reverted from the bottom to the cockpit and the subtitles indications must be reverted too leaving the coordinates data unchanged. That's my idea.
[...]
The end of the second part
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance Internationl Press
October 11, 2008
AUGUST 2008, ANOTHER WHISTLEBLOWER SPEAKS OUT:
"ANONYMOUS ATS"
Weeks ago I had an e-mail contact with Bill Ryan (Project Camelot) concerning the Apollo 20 case and William Rutledge's footage, especially the footage about the EBE "Mona Lisa" spread by "retiredafb" on revver.com.
B. Ryan told me that many people think the footage is a fake but - at the same time - he pointed out a very interesting topic on AboveTopSecret (ATS) forum, where last August an anonymous individual wrote something that I should have read it.
The title of the topic is “Apollo 20 update”, begun in April 2008. The remarkable intervention is the one posted at 09:50 PM on August 14, 2008, by “Anonymous ATS”.
The whistleblower is - according to the written testimony - the son of a former NRO employee who years ago - before to die because of an "inoperable cancer" - revealed a secret which has always been a weight on his chest: to have participated, as member of a Mission control team, to <<[…] an ultra-black project in the mid-70's that sent another mission to the moon to investigate a particularly provacative anomaly>>.
NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) is a very important intelligence agency, and "Anonymous ATS" is right when he says <<[...] It was declassified in 1992...>>.
Well, there are some details told by this whistleblower very close to the aspects of Rutledge's story: same year (1976) in which the black operation would have been occured, same location for the Mission Control (Vandenberg AFB) and same goal: investigating a lunar singularity, which in 1973 <<[...] was confirmed>> as <<[...] in fact a derelict spacecraft>>.
There are also some inconsistencies: for example a different position from where to launch the spacecraft - not Vandenberg but an island in the Indian Ocean - and no signs of triangular objects and no extraterrestrial creatures recovered.
But the whistleblower told us also that <<[...] My father said that the project was highly compartmentalized so he did not know the whole story>>.
Here you have the main points made by "Anonymous ATS" about his father's story:
<< [...]
1. He did not mention anything about "Apollo 20" and never even gave a formal name. In addition, there were no markings on the rocket or spacecraft. This operation was entirely off the books. No one on the operation used their real names, that's how far it went.
2. Mission Control was located at Vandenburg AFB. The actual launch was on the island of Diego Garcia. This island was located in the Indian Ocean along the equator with virtually nothing around it. This site was chosen because if launched to the East, the rocket would have nearly 12,000 miles of unbroken water to help cover the tracks. It was accepted people would see the launch wherever it was, this site would limit that.
3. The project was initiated, by Nixon's orders, in late 1971. My father's work began on the project began in 1974. The actual mission took place in 1976. My father said that he underwent an intensive psychological exam before he was selected to join the program. He said he thought he was bought in mainly because he "could be trusted".
4. The actual mission consisted of 3 American astronauts whose names he would not mention. He said that these men had been trained for nearly 4 years specifically for this mission. He also said that in 1973 it was confirmed the object was in fact a derelict spacecraft. He reviewed this pictures personally when selected for the project.
5. The spacecraft was speculated to be roughly 1.5 million years old, although he was not allowed access to that exact information. The ship was badly decayed from meteor impacts and the ancient crash. The ship was cigar shaped, and massive, the section was roughly 1 mile. Evidence suggested it been explored before us. No alien remains were found. 300kg of artifacts were stripped and brought back. My father described what he called "strange hieroglyphs and markings" covering what was assumed to be the the "cockpit" of the craft.
6. At least 2 other governments were involved with the project. My father said he worked with a British analyst and he knew of a smaller team in Australia but wasn't sure the Australian government were exactly aware of what our men were doing.
[...] >>
from: Apollo 20 update, Topic started on 9-4-2008 @ 09:33 AM by JohnnyRaincheckd
reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 09:50 PM by Anonymous ATS
Thanks to AboveTopSecret (ATS)
About point nr. 3, as the matter of fact in May 1972 U.S. President Richard Nixon and the Soviet politican Kossygin - in spite of the Cold War times - signed in Moscow an important agreement on Space and technology: a five years agreement of cooperation among United States and Soviet Union: <<Agreement Concerning Cooperation in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space for Peaceful Purposes.>> That's why the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project (ASTP) was possible.
But most important it is the fact that some of the details of this presumed and unknown piece of XX Century history, are coherent with some aspects told me by William Rutledge (the alleged Apollo 20 CDR) by YouTube messages, but aspects I have never revealed to the general public so far: I am doing now it on this Web page, showing the snapshots of our contacts as evidence.
For example the "Anonymous ATS" has written:
<<[…] there were no markings on the rocket or spacecraft>>.
On June 6, 2007, I received a message by William Rutledge in which he told me that:
<<[…] On the lift off sequence, the saturn 5 has no markings till the third stage. […] In vandenberg, the saturn V launch had to be not reconizable, no BW lines or USA marks on the rocket. Only the last ring was black painted, and it could look like an ordinary Delta rocket at 4 miles distance.>>.
from Luca Scantamburlo's YouTube account, message by "retiredafb" (received on June 6, 2007, 01:37 AM)
Moreover, "Anonymous ATS" has reported in his point nr.6 about at least two other Governments involved in the classified project:
<<6. At least 2 other governments were involved with the project. My father said he worked with a British analyst and he knew of a smaller team in Australia but wasn't sure the Australian government were exactly aware of what our men were doing.>>
On May 23, 2007, 06:12 AM (at the beginning of our contacts) I received a YouTube message by William Rutledge where he wrote me that:
<<[…] about nation involved
1 As far as i know, it’s USA and Russia, but i would not be surprised if france is on this program, MHD and anti matter is used in this country.>>
from Luca Scantamburlo's YouTube account, message by "retiredafb" (received on May 23, 2007, 06:12 AM)
And at 09:26 am on July 15, 2007, I received a message by William Rutledge where he wrote that:
<<[…] I'd like to post the genuine sound but they are on separated tapes. Many people , radio amateur were tracking the apollo missions , so the sound was coded and was separated from video , secrecy was kept unless i think than French and British got the tv feeds (m' not sure of this).>>
from Luca Scantamburlo's YouTube account, message by "retiredafb" (received on July 15, 2007, 09:26 AM)
In the snapshots here presented, the public will find more information told me by William Rutledge, not discussed by me in this report.
© Luca Scantamburlo
freelance writer member of the Free Lance Internationl Press
October 11, 2008
